Comments on: Another Liberal blog endorses MMP. http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/2007/09/21/another-liberal-blog-endorses-mmp/ My personal opinions on social and political issues from a progressive standpoint. Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:15:38 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Mark http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/2007/09/21/another-liberal-blog-endorses-mmp/#comment-8548 Mark Sat, 22 Sep 2007 03:59:42 +0000 http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/2007/09/21/another-liberal-blog-endorses-mmp/#comment-8548 Knb, Here's Campaign Life's take on MMP: http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/aug/07083004.html Of particular note, "There are very few examples of social conservative legislation being passed in countries with PR. This summer The Interim newspaper had a team of three people examine the records of other countries to track the progress of prolife and pro-family legislation in countries with PR. They found just one significant example. In the Netherlands, the Christian Union Party, as part of the coalition government there, has effected some positive change in closing down brothels, reducing the number of marijuana shops and introducing guidelines requiring cooling off wait times for abortions."<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('8548','Mark'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('8548','Mark','Knb,\r\nHere&#39;s Campaign Life&#39;s take on MMP: http:\/\/www.lifesite.net\/ldn\/2007\/aug\/07083004.html\r\n\r\nOf particular note, &quot;There are very few examples of social conservative legislation being passed in countries with PR. This summer The Interim newspaper had a team of three people examine the records of other countries to track the progress of prolife and pro-family legislation in countries with PR. They found just one significant example. In the Netherlands, the Christian Union Party, as part of the coalition government there, has effected some positive change in closing down brothels, reducing the number of marijuana shops and introducing guidelines requiring cooling off wait times for abortions.&quot;'); return false;">Quote</a></div> Knb,
Here's Campaign Life's take on MMP: http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/aug/07083004.html

Of particular note, "There are very few examples of social conservative legislation being passed in countries with PR. This summer The Interim newspaper had a team of three people examine the records of other countries to track the progress of prolife and pro-family legislation in countries with PR. They found just one significant example. In the Netherlands, the Christian Union Party, as part of the coalition government there, has effected some positive change in closing down brothels, reducing the number of marijuana shops and introducing guidelines requiring cooling off wait times for abortions."

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]]> By: Scott Tribe http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/2007/09/21/another-liberal-blog-endorses-mmp/#comment-8547 Scott Tribe Sat, 22 Sep 2007 03:40:06 +0000 http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/2007/09/21/another-liberal-blog-endorses-mmp/#comment-8547 As the link shows, 3% is a lot harder to reach then the fear-mongers... er.. the NO side.. would have you believe. The Green Party wouldn't have even qualified for a list mpp last election, and the Family Coalition Party isnt even on the radar at 0.8%. Even if they did, 1 seat or 2 seats held by one of these groups isn't going to adversely affect the balance of power - the 70 - 30 split of local seats vs list seats virtually assures that the "mainstream" parties can form coalitions amongst themselves without worrying about an "extremist" party holding the legislature hostage. That's just more scare tactics being employed. Besides, notwithstanding Knb's fears, which I feel are groundless and unwarranted, if those folks get 3% of the vote, which is a couple hundred thousand Ontarions, then they deserve to get representation. Democracy isnt about excluding those people we dont like or whose views we disagree with. But as I said, 3% is a larger threshold then some folks think... ansd again I'll point to the link I provided to Knb and his rundown to show better what I mean.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('8547','Scott Tribe'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('8547','Scott Tribe','As the link shows, 3% is a lot harder to reach then the fear-mongers... er.. the NO side.. would have you believe. The Green Party wouldn&#39;t have even qualified for a list mpp last election, and the Family Coalition Party isnt even on the radar at 0.8%. \r\n\r\nEven if they did, 1 seat or 2 seats held by one of these groups isn&#39;t going to adversely affect the balance of power - the 70 - 30 split of local seats vs list seats virtually assures that the &quot;mainstream&quot; parties can form coalitions amongst themselves without worrying about an &quot;extremist&quot; party holding the legislature hostage. That&#39;s just more scare tactics being employed.\r\n\r\nBesides, notwithstanding Knb&#39;s fears, which I feel are groundless and unwarranted, if those folks get 3% of the vote, which is a couple hundred thousand Ontarions, then they deserve to get representation. Democracy isnt about excluding those people we dont like or whose views we disagree with.\r\n\r\nBut as I said, 3% is a larger threshold then some folks think... ansd again I&#39;ll point to the link I provided to Knb and his rundown to show better what I mean.'); return false;">Quote</a></div> As the link shows, 3% is a lot harder to reach then the fear-mongers… er.. the NO side.. would have you believe. The Green Party wouldn't have even qualified for a list mpp last election, and the Family Coalition Party isnt even on the radar at 0.8%.

Even if they did, 1 seat or 2 seats held by one of these groups isn't going to adversely affect the balance of power - the 70 - 30 split of local seats vs list seats virtually assures that the "mainstream" parties can form coalitions amongst themselves without worrying about an "extremist" party holding the legislature hostage. That's just more scare tactics being employed.

Besides, notwithstanding Knb's fears, which I feel are groundless and unwarranted, if those folks get 3% of the vote, which is a couple hundred thousand Ontarions, then they deserve to get representation. Democracy isnt about excluding those people we dont like or whose views we disagree with.

But as I said, 3% is a larger threshold then some folks think… ansd again I'll point to the link I provided to Knb and his rundown to show better what I mean.

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]]> By: Vijay Sappani http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/2007/09/21/another-liberal-blog-endorses-mmp/#comment-8545 Vijay Sappani Sat, 22 Sep 2007 03:08:55 +0000 http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/2007/09/21/another-liberal-blog-endorses-mmp/#comment-8545 I have received several calls this week to camapaign for NO MMP. Christian coalition, Rhino party or a bunch of religious fanatics can come together and send a wacko to queen's park.  What a pro life party.  IT will be interesting to watch hope it shapes.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('8545','Vijay Sappani'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('8545','Vijay Sappani','I have received several calls this week to camapaign for NO MMP. Christian coalition, Rhino party or a bunch of religious fanatics can come together and send a wacko to queen&#39;s park.&nbsp; What a pro life party.&nbsp; IT will be interesting to watch hope it shapes.'); return false;">Quote</a></div> I have received several calls this week to camapaign for NO MMP. Christian coalition, Rhino party or a bunch of religious fanatics can come together and send a wacko to queen's park.  What a pro life party.  IT will be interesting to watch hope it shapes.
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]]> By: Scott Tribe http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/2007/09/21/another-liberal-blog-endorses-mmp/#comment-8544 Scott Tribe Sat, 22 Sep 2007 02:45:37 +0000 http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/2007/09/21/another-liberal-blog-endorses-mmp/#comment-8544 Actually... the threshold is 3%. Knb.. and you're scared over nothing, as far as I'm concerned. Read <a href="http://dymaxionworld.blogspot.com/2007/09/about-that-3-threshold.html" title="About that 3% Threshold.." rel="nofollow">here</a> to see what I mean<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('8544','Scott Tribe'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('8544','Scott Tribe','Actually... the threshold is 3%. Knb.. and you&#39;re scared over nothing, as far as I&#39;m concerned.\r\n\r\nRead <a href=\"http:\/\/dymaxionworld.blogspot.com\/2007\/09\/about-that-3-threshold.html\" title=\"About that 3% Threshold..\" rel=\"nofollow\">here<\/a> to see what I mean'); return false;">Quote</a></div> Actually… the threshold is 3%. Knb.. and you're scared over nothing, as far as I'm concerned.

Read here to see what I mean

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]]> By: knb http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/2007/09/21/another-liberal-blog-endorses-mmp/#comment-8542 knb Sat, 22 Sep 2007 02:33:56 +0000 http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/2007/09/21/another-liberal-blog-endorses-mmp/#comment-8542 Scott, I've read and read and read.  I still see a threat from the Christian  Coalition  and other groups, having a voice. Sorry, especially now, I do not want that group to have any more voice.  Democracy to me does mean that 2% of the pop have an equal voice. The ability to sound their voice, yes.  In parliament, no, and as I said, especially not now. To be honest Scott, it brings to mind the dishonest debates.  Those who oppose evolution, or those who oppose global warming.  We allow them the same playing field and that is nuts!  This will give them more latitude and I can't bear it. I'm sorry my friend, I know you are passionate about this,  but at this point in our history, it's not the time, imo.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('8542','knb'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('8542','knb','Scott, I&#39;ve read and read and read.&nbsp; I still see a threat from the Christian&nbsp; Coalition&nbsp; and other groups, having a voice.\r\n\r\nSorry, especially now, I do not want that group to have any more voice.&nbsp; Democracy to me does mean that 2% of the pop have an equal voice. \r\n\r\nThe ability to sound their voice, yes.&nbsp; In parliament, no, and as I said, especially not now.\r\n\r\nTo be honest Scott, it brings to mind the dishonest debates.&nbsp; Those who oppose evolution, or those who oppose global warming.&nbsp; We allow them the same playing field and that is nuts!&nbsp; This will give them more latitude and I can&#39;t bear it.\r\n\r\nI&#39;m sorry my friend, I know you are&nbsp;passionate about this,&nbsp; but at this point in our history, it&#39;s not the time, imo.'); return false;">Quote</a></div> Scott, I've read and read and read.  I still see a threat from the Christian  Coalition  and other groups, having a voice.

Sorry, especially now, I do not want that group to have any more voice.  Democracy to me does mean that 2% of the pop have an equal voice.

The ability to sound their voice, yes.  In parliament, no, and as I said, especially not now.

To be honest Scott, it brings to mind the dishonest debates.  Those who oppose evolution, or those who oppose global warming.  We allow them the same playing field and that is nuts!  This will give them more latitude and I can't bear it.

I'm sorry my friend, I know you are passionate about this,  but at this point in our history, it's not the time, imo.

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