6 Responded To This Post

11117. s.b. said on December 15, 2007 at 8:10 pm

Scott, since you do post quite a bit on politics you should be aware of the meaning of certain terms and whether or not they are applicable.  China was the main concern of the US with regards to emmissions.  It was never a third world country.  It was a part of the Communist bloc, which was the second world.  These terms however have not existed as definitions since the fall of the soviet block in the early 1990’s.  China is still Communist, with free market provinces and I guess could losely be described as second world, but really its an emerging economy, or developing nation and actually at the top of that field.  The terms to classify countries now are developed, developing and under developed.   China and even India are really very close to being classified as developed with emmerging economies and certainly 3rd world was never correct. 

11118. quaeitur said on December 15, 2007 at 8:40 pm

It seems to me that the final agreement is just more of Baird’s ‘aspirational’ goals.  Where are the dates and hard targets?  What does "deep cuts in global emissions" really mean?  

Agreement to help developing nations curb emissions is all well and good, but without dates and targets it seems rather meaningless to me.

What really makes me crazy is Baird’s completely unbelievable claim that he’s ‘disappointed’ that there are no target dates and numbers, and that he was prepared to accept long-term targets.  HE rejected clear references to a goal for developed countries to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 25 to 45 per cent from 1990 levels by 2020, refused to meet with environmental groups at Bali, and skipped critical meetings.  So he now thinks he can return home as some kind of environmental hero!  He really believes that Canadians are that dumb?  

11121. Scott Tribe said on December 15, 2007 at 10:36 pm

S.B. The part of the article prior to the quoted text reads from the Globe and Mail:

This broader agreement nearly collapsed at the last minute today when India and China insisted on stronger promises by wealthy countries to help provide “green” technology to the developing nations.

You can interpret that as China and India asking the developed world to better help developing nations with paying for green technology, with them as their advocates, or you can say it can be interpreted as they count themselves as "developing nations" and include themselves as asking for help as well. Either way, the result was the same.

Quaeitur: - again, read the quoted text from the Globe article :

The second agreement, later in the day, set targets for deep cuts in emissions – but it applied only to the 38 wealthy countries that have ratified the Kyoto accord, the 1997 agreement that set moderate targets for emission cuts by the wealthy nations.

That is the 25 to 40% target in the next decade that Baird objected to, but when he found himself virtually alone, had to withdraw the objection - to the applause of the entire rest of the world delegations.

11125. mushroom said on December 16, 2007 at 12:26 am

Not sure if the 25 to 40 per cent target made it to the draft text of the Bali framework. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7146276.stm
 
It will be added in an addendum as there will be two more conferences, one in Poznan and Copenhagen.  There is nothing in the draft text calling for a 50 per cent reduction of greenhouse gases by 2050 which was agreed upon previously by both the G8 and APEC earlier this year.   

11135. Scott Tribe said on December 16, 2007 at 10:21 am

Mushroom:

The Toronto Star in their editorial this morning does say Canada accepted (grudgingly) the 25-40% target for 2020 for those 38 countries who have already ratified Kyoto

11138. quaeitur said on December 16, 2007 at 11:21 am

OK, I’m still trying to get my head around this…the first part of the agreement doesn’t contain any hard targets for the non-Kyoto countries, but does include ‘green’ assistance for ‘developing’ nations from ‘developed’ ones.  So, that would mean that countries like Canada and the US, that have already said they can’t meet their own emission targets will be expected to assist in reducing emissions for ‘developing’ nations?

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