8 Responded To This Post

13634. Mark Francis said on February 27, 2008 at 10:43 am

It’s common in the GW denialist community to claim that certain things are "hidden" or "not accounted for" in the multitude of studies on GW. Although I am sure that the central hacks pushing the anti-GW criticisms very much do know the truth and simply lie (using the same strategy and even the same PR firms which worked for the tobacco industry when they were still tryign to disprove the tobacco-cancer link), most of the denialist crowd parrot the propaganda without looking at the source documentation.

Some of what is argued is just blatantly wrong.

For example, when it was found that certain glaciers where getting thicker, this was pointed out by denialists as evidence that GW is not accurate, even though the study which was claimed by the denialists to not account for the thickening actually specifically claimed that the glaciers would get thicker for a while as warming increased. (I believe this is because warmer air holds more water, which results in more snowfall, and thus thicker glaciers.) Of course, the long term projection is that the melt rate catches up and surpasses the rate of thickening. And, of course, glaciers can get thicker while getting shorter.

But, no. The denialist community simply lied and claimed that the study failed to predict this.

And, yes, I laboriously read the study.

It’s so much easier to be ignorant, and to pass along lies. You don’t sweat over accuracy.

13636. The Fwanksta said on February 27, 2008 at 10:47 am

Thank you so much for that.

13637. quinsam said on February 27, 2008 at 10:49 am

Those of us who are old enough to remember winters in southern Ontario when 2 feet of snow in one dump wasn’t all that remarkable, when blizzards lasted for days and everything in the city was shut down for a week or more, when grocery stores were empty because delivery trucks couldn’t get through, when children weren’t allowed outside because they would be swallowed up in the 3-4 foot snowdrifts, we have to laugh at all the hue and cry about the ‘harsh’ winter this year. 

This winter has actually been quite unremarkable over the long term.  It’s just that over the past 30 or so years global warming has made it seem that winter is just a somewhat colder version of summer.

13639. ALW said on February 27, 2008 at 11:09 am

It appears the only people who oppose this reality are supporters of Big Oil or ultra-capitalists who don’t want a “socialist scheme” (to quote Stephen Harper on Kyoto) taking away some of their ability to make big profits, while the planet and its people and its ecology suffers.

Oh, okay then. You were saying something about straw men?

I don’t know whether climate change is real or not.  There’s certainly enough evidence to suggest it probably is.  And that should be enough to force people to take it seriously, since the risk of gambling it’s not real and doing nothing about it would be catastrophic.

That said, there are two groups who oppose these "socialist schemes" that you don’t give any credit to.  One is the group that believe climate change is real, but simply question the doomsday scenarios being peddled by the David Suzuki crowd - and they are suspicious of the likes of Suzuki for precisely the same reason the Suzuko crowd is suspicious of Big Oil: because accepting the worst case scenarios conveniently fits the political agenda of eco-extremists, just as pretending climate change isn’t real suits Big Oil.

The other is the group that believes climate change is real, but simply doesn’t believe the government regulatory approach to solving environmental problems will work (or work as well at market-based approaches). Bjorn Lomborg falls into this category.

13641. Ti-Guy said on February 27, 2008 at 11:30 am

Oh, okay then. You were saying something about straw men

Followed shortly by:

…That said, there are two groups who oppose these "socialist schemes"
One is the group that believe climate change is real, but simply question the doomsday scenarios being peddled by the David Suzuki crowd

It’s not that Aaron is always so wrong….it’s the amount of energy he puts into making uncompelling arguments while simultaneously criticising the structure of other people’s arguments.

He’d be making a more productive use of his time if he’d bother referring to the rich, scientific and rigorously documented data that proves that <i>laissez faire</i> is superior to any kind of concerted action.

13643. ALW said on February 27, 2008 at 12:17 pm

Concerted action? You mean coerced action.

13649. Ti-Guy said on February 27, 2008 at 3:31 pm

No, I meant concerted action.  That’s why I wrote that.

13650. mike h said on February 27, 2008 at 3:52 pm

First let me say that I believe that climate change is real. What I do not believe is the doomsday scenarios that I hear. Also there is no 100 percent foolproof science that everyone agrees on what is causing it. I do think that green house gases from burning fossil fuels  are a contibuting factor but again there is no 100 percent proof as to how much. So what do we do about it. Yes we should be cutting back. Not just us but the whole global community. If it is only us that takes action then our efforts are useless unless we can figure out a way to prevent airborn pollutants from dropping on our soil that have foreign origins. Lets face it. SUZUKI is a hypocryte of the biggest kind next to AL Gore..they sit there on there high horses and preach to every one to do there part yet Suzuki rides around in his diesel bus that spews more toxins than most vehicles..and al gore with his jet that has been proven to be onee of the worst jets as far as carbon footprints goes. and we also need to realize that the other planets that are close to the sun are warming also so what is the real cause? No one knows.

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