2 Responded To This Post

14347. Antonio Di Domizio said on April 5, 2008 at 5:10 pm

there are several things which you attribute to soft nationalists that have never been asked for by any Liberal seeking to amend the constitution and make considerable concessions to Quebec.

Before I get into it, the federal government should in fact apologize for not including Quebec in the first agreement. Trudeau did meet with the 9 other premiers and cut a deal behind the back of Rene Levesque. It left a bitter taste in the mouths of many Quebeckers, even if you remove the ridiculous “night of the long knives” rhetoric.

Firstly, you bring up Victoria and I firmly believe Victoria was probably the best chance Canada had at nipping the sovereignty movement in the bud, as it happened before the PQ ever won election. Not all constitutional rounds have to emerge with an agreement. Mulroney made this mistake twice. Sometimes no agreement is reached, take a break, come back next month or next year. If Mulroney had an open consultative process where Meech could be amended, maybe Elijah Harper and co. could have had their grievances heard and something amenable to Bourassa could have been added to Meech. Trudeau made a similar mistake in 1981. He knew that after 4 or 5 attempts this round would be his last, so he wanted an agreement no matter what. His arrogance got the better of him.

Secondly, you talk about nation recognition in the text of the constitution. Who has ever proposed that? In fact, nobody in Quebec has ever proposed it. The Ignatieff campaign and the bold group of people in the PLC(Q) policy commission never mentioned any of that. In fact, it would be most important that this recognition be placed in the preamble of the constitution, under the context of the historical importance of the two founding nations of Canada, rather than in the text of the constitution, where the courts could use it as a reason to create inequalities in Canada by claiming that because Quebec is distinct, the Constitution should apply differently. Joseph, no Liberal should support putting the recognition of Quebec as a nation anywhere but the preamble as nobody wants to use this historical reality to create inequality.

Lastly, even Pierre Trudeau acknowledged that the Constitution did not need to be immediately amended. He said this merely 6 years abte the original document was penned. When asked by reporters when amendments were in fact necessary Trudeau replied that a generation would need to pass before we should think about amendments and that Mulroney was doing this too quickly. It has been 26 years since we last amended the constitution. It’s time we stop putting our head in the sand at the mention of the very word constitution.

14365. Joseph said on April 6, 2008 at 7:21 pm

Antonio,
The federal government, much less anyone else, does not “owe” any sort of an apology to Quebec. Levesque gambled away his constitutional veto for the simple goal of roadblocking any sort of deal. He then left the Gang of Eight by offering to decide this by a referendum. He left the Gang of Eight all on his own - they did not leave him. And Claude Morin had admitted that the Quebec delegation was only there to stonewall the talks. Please have a look at Robert Shepard and Michael Valpy’s The National Deal - the finest book written on the 1982 deal IMHO.
If you claim to be a federalist, you should not be spouting such separatist sophistry and historical revisionism as if it were historical fact.
What you call bold is what I call caving in to unreasonable demands. I accuse the Ignatieff camp and your policy convention of doing precisely that. If the “nation” clause does not belong in the “actual text” of the Constitution, then why does it belong in the preamble? Just to make a few people happy? And do you think that separatism will go away with just that simple little recognition? Please do not delude yourself. Separatists and soft nationalists will start asking for powers to go along with that distinctness or “nationhood”. Let us not make that same mistake that Mulroney made.
So we have to recognize “the two founding nations of Canada”? No we do not. The French and English were here first - so? Why are we to honour any culture ahead of the other just because they happen to come across Canada by accident and settle here first? Please. My culture has done as much as the English and the French in building this country - why does Quebec and “English Canada” deserve such a recognition and not Latin American Canadians or Italian Canadians? Dion put it best - why do we have to engage in sociological labelling in the Constitution?
Also, please have a look at this. http://archives.cbc.ca/dossier.asp?page=4&IDDossier=368&IDCat=&IDCatPa=
It’s Trudeau being interviewed by Barbara Frum about Meech Lake. He doesn’t once mention that the time was not right to move on the Constitution. He does say that the premiers should take more time thinking about putting the distinct society clause - so to get them to remove the clause. I do not fear talking about the constitution - I propose an amending formula that I think is very fair and reasonable to all parties. And moreover, it is gives Quebec a concrete capability to protect their culture that cannot be distorted into giving them any more powers.
You would have to explain why the Victoria amending formula does a weaker job of protecting Quebec culture than a “nation” clause ANYWHERE in the Constitution. That is the goal here I think. You do not use a Constitution to right a historical wrong that in fact never happened.
 
 
 

 
 

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