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	<title>Comments on: Conservatives hope public cynicism towards their acts means they go unpunished by the electorate.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/2008/05/05/conservatives-hope-public-cynicism-towards-their-acts-means-they-go-unpunished-by-the-electorate/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/2008/05/05/conservatives-hope-public-cynicism-towards-their-acts-means-they-go-unpunished-by-the-electorate/</link>
	<description>My personal opinions on social and political issues from a progressive standpoint.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 22:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Gayle</title>
		<link>http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/2008/05/05/conservatives-hope-public-cynicism-towards-their-acts-means-they-go-unpunished-by-the-electorate/#comment-14878</link>
		<dc:creator>Gayle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 05:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/?p=1259#comment-14878</guid>
		<description>Colin - I think it is time you took a reading comprehension course.

The Elections Act is law. It creates offences. If the CPC acted in a manner that falls within one of those offences, they have commited an offence. It is not an "accounting regulation". It is an offence. If they are found guilty, they will be punished.

If you need some help understanding that concept, I suggest you read the affidavit for the SW, where EC sets out quite clearly what offences they believe the CPC may have commited, and the evidence they have to support that.

Perhaps you would like to link to my comment where I suggest EC can enact laws. Of course they cannot do that - only Parliament can do that. You do not assist your argument by making things up.

You are wrong in your assertion EC cannot enforce the law. You need to read the EA. Just where do you think they get their authority to obtain a search warrant? Why do you think they can get a search warrant, and investigate and ultimately charge a party with an offence under the Act if they do not have the power to enforce the law?

While I understand your desperate need to equate the breach of the Elections Act with a speeding ticket, it is simply not true. A speeding ticket nets you a fine of a few hundred dollars. An offence under the EA can result in fines in the thousands of dollars, and possible deregistration of the CPC.

More importantly, there is a difference between a ticket, which is what is referred to as a "strict liability" offence (which does not require the prosecution to prove intent to commit the offence), and an offence under the EA, which does requires proof of intent. When the Crown's burden is more onerous, that means the offence is more serious.

This leads us back to my previous comment in response to OS's suggestion that it does not matter if the CPC committed an offence, preferring to blame the "crazy" election law instead of the CPC for knowingly breaching the legislation.

(And yes, I know no charges have been laid so I am not accusing the CPC of being guilty. I am simply responding to OS's suggestion that it does not matter if they are).

You also fail in your attempt to minimize the seriousness of the refund claims. You see, if EC is correct that the refunds claimed were actually based on the expenses incurred by the national party, in violation of the EA, it means the refund claim is fraudulent. Some people equate fraud with theft - for good reason.&lt;div class="comment-remix-meta"&gt;&lt;a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('14878','Gayle'); return false;"&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('14878','Gayle','Colin - I think it is time you took a reading comprehension course.\r\n\r\nThe Elections Act is law. It creates offences. If the CPC acted in a manner that falls within one of those offences, they have commited an offence. It is not an \&#34;accounting regulation\&#34;. It is an offence. If they are found guilty, they will be punished.\r\n\r\nIf you need some help understanding that concept, I suggest you read the affidavit for the SW, where EC sets out quite clearly what offences they believe the CPC may have commited, and the evidence they have to support that.\r\n\r\nPerhaps you would like to link to my comment where I suggest EC can enact laws. Of course they cannot do that - only Parliament can do that. You do not assist your argument by making things up.\r\n\r\nYou are wrong in your assertion EC cannot enforce the law. You need to read the EA. Just where do you think they get their authority to obtain a search warrant? Why do you think they can get a search warrant, and investigate and ultimately charge a party with an offence under the Act if they do not have the power to enforce the law?\r\n\r\nWhile I understand your desperate need to equate the breach of the Elections Act with a speeding ticket, it is simply not true. A speeding ticket nets you a fine of a few hundred dollars. An offence under the EA can result in fines in the thousands of dollars, and possible deregistration of the CPC.\r\n\r\nMore importantly, there is a difference between a ticket, which is what is referred to as a \&#34;strict liability\&#34; offence (which does not require the prosecution to prove intent to commit the offence), and an offence under the EA, which does requires proof of intent. When the Crown\'s burden is more onerous, that means the offence is more serious.\r\n\r\nThis leads us back to my previous comment in response to OS\'s suggestion that it does not matter if the CPC committed an offence, preferring to blame the \&#34;crazy\&#34; election law instead of the CPC for knowingly breaching the legislation.\r\n\r\n(And yes, I know no charges have been laid so I am not accusing the CPC of being guilty. I am simply responding to OS\'s suggestion that it does not matter if they are).\r\n\r\nYou also fail in your attempt to minimize the seriousness of the refund claims. You see, if EC is correct that the refunds claimed were actually based on the expenses incurred by the national party, in violation of the EA, it means the refund claim is fraudulent. Some people equate fraud with theft - for good reason.'); return false;"&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Colin - I think it is time you took a reading comprehension course.</p>
<p>The Elections Act is law. It creates offences. If the CPC acted in a manner that falls within one of those offences, they have commited an offence. It is not an &#8220;accounting regulation&#8221;. It is an offence. If they are found guilty, they will be punished.</p>
<p>If you need some help understanding that concept, I suggest you read the affidavit for the SW, where EC sets out quite clearly what offences they believe the CPC may have commited, and the evidence they have to support that.</p>
<p>Perhaps you would like to link to my comment where I suggest EC can enact laws. Of course they cannot do that - only Parliament can do that. You do not assist your argument by making things up.</p>
<p>You are wrong in your assertion EC cannot enforce the law. You need to read the EA. Just where do you think they get their authority to obtain a search warrant? Why do you think they can get a search warrant, and investigate and ultimately charge a party with an offence under the Act if they do not have the power to enforce the law?</p>
<p>While I understand your desperate need to equate the breach of the Elections Act with a speeding ticket, it is simply not true. A speeding ticket nets you a fine of a few hundred dollars. An offence under the EA can result in fines in the thousands of dollars, and possible deregistration of the CPC.</p>
<p>More importantly, there is a difference between a ticket, which is what is referred to as a &#8220;strict liability&#8221; offence (which does not require the prosecution to prove intent to commit the offence), and an offence under the EA, which does requires proof of intent. When the Crown&#8217;s burden is more onerous, that means the offence is more serious.</p>
<p>This leads us back to my previous comment in response to OS&#8217;s suggestion that it does not matter if the CPC committed an offence, preferring to blame the &#8220;crazy&#8221; election law instead of the CPC for knowingly breaching the legislation.</p>
<p>(And yes, I know no charges have been laid so I am not accusing the CPC of being guilty. I am simply responding to OS&#8217;s suggestion that it does not matter if they are).</p>
<p>You also fail in your attempt to minimize the seriousness of the refund claims. You see, if EC is correct that the refunds claimed were actually based on the expenses incurred by the national party, in violation of the EA, it means the refund claim is fraudulent. Some people equate fraud with theft - for good reason.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('14878','Gayle'); return false;">Reply</a>  - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('14878','Gayle','Colin - I think it is time you took a reading comprehension course.\r\n\r\nThe Elections Act is law. It creates offences. If the CPC acted in a manner that falls within one of those offences, they have commited an offence. It is not an \&quot;accounting regulation\&quot;. It is an offence. If they are found guilty, they will be punished.\r\n\r\nIf you need some help understanding that concept, I suggest you read the affidavit for the SW, where EC sets out quite clearly what offences they believe the CPC may have commited, and the evidence they have to support that.\r\n\r\nPerhaps you would like to link to my comment where I suggest EC can enact laws. Of course they cannot do that - only Parliament can do that. You do not assist your argument by making things up.\r\n\r\nYou are wrong in your assertion EC cannot enforce the law. You need to read the EA. Just where do you think they get their authority to obtain a search warrant? Why do you think they can get a search warrant, and investigate and ultimately charge a party with an offence under the Act if they do not have the power to enforce the law?\r\n\r\nWhile I understand your desperate need to equate the breach of the Elections Act with a speeding ticket, it is simply not true. A speeding ticket nets you a fine of a few hundred dollars. An offence under the EA can result in fines in the thousands of dollars, and possible deregistration of the CPC.\r\n\r\nMore importantly, there is a difference between a ticket, which is what is referred to as a \&quot;strict liability\&quot; offence (which does not require the prosecution to prove intent to commit the offence), and an offence under the EA, which does requires proof of intent. When the Crown\'s burden is more onerous, that means the offence is more serious.\r\n\r\nThis leads us back to my previous comment in response to OS\'s suggestion that it does not matter if the CPC committed an offence, preferring to blame the \&quot;crazy\&quot; election law instead of the CPC for knowingly breaching the legislation.\r\n\r\n(And yes, I know no charges have been laid so I am not accusing the CPC of being guilty. I am simply responding to OS\'s suggestion that it does not matter if they are).\r\n\r\nYou also fail in your attempt to minimize the seriousness of the refund claims. You see, if EC is correct that the refunds claimed were actually based on the expenses incurred by the national party, in violation of the EA, it means the refund claim is fraudulent. Some people equate fraud with theft - for good reason.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Colin</title>
		<link>http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/2008/05/05/conservatives-hope-public-cynicism-towards-their-acts-means-they-go-unpunished-by-the-electorate/#comment-14876</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 02:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/?p=1259#comment-14876</guid>
		<description>Gayle,

Once again you confuse an accounting regulation with a law.

EC cannot enact or enforce laws. The law courts will decide IF there was a violation of the regulations at which time a small fine will be paid. Kinda like a speeding ticket.

To conflate this with stealing tax dollars through what you consider to be unearned refunds is to confuse your tax return with raiding your neighbours cookie jar.

The courts will decide if the CPC interpreted the regulations properly, not you and certainly not EC.&lt;div class="comment-remix-meta"&gt;&lt;a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('14876','Colin'); return false;"&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('14876','Colin','Gayle,\r\n\r\nOnce again you confuse an accounting regulation with a law.\r\n\r\nEC cannot enact or enforce laws. The law courts will decide IF there was a violation of the regulations at which time a small fine will be paid. Kinda like a speeding ticket.\r\n\r\nTo conflate this with stealing tax dollars through what you consider to be unearned refunds is to confuse your tax return with raiding your neighbours cookie jar.\r\n\r\nThe courts will decide if the CPC interpreted the regulations properly, not you and certainly not EC.'); return false;"&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gayle,</p>
<p>Once again you confuse an accounting regulation with a law.</p>
<p>EC cannot enact or enforce laws. The law courts will decide IF there was a violation of the regulations at which time a small fine will be paid. Kinda like a speeding ticket.</p>
<p>To conflate this with stealing tax dollars through what you consider to be unearned refunds is to confuse your tax return with raiding your neighbours cookie jar.</p>
<p>The courts will decide if the CPC interpreted the regulations properly, not you and certainly not EC.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('14876','Colin'); return false;">Reply</a>  - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('14876','Colin','Gayle,\r\n\r\nOnce again you confuse an accounting regulation with a law.\r\n\r\nEC cannot enact or enforce laws. The law courts will decide IF there was a violation of the regulations at which time a small fine will be paid. Kinda like a speeding ticket.\r\n\r\nTo conflate this with stealing tax dollars through what you consider to be unearned refunds is to confuse your tax return with raiding your neighbours cookie jar.\r\n\r\nThe courts will decide if the CPC interpreted the regulations properly, not you and certainly not EC.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Gayle</title>
		<link>http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/2008/05/05/conservatives-hope-public-cynicism-towards-their-acts-means-they-go-unpunished-by-the-electorate/#comment-14875</link>
		<dc:creator>Gayle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 01:05:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/?p=1259#comment-14875</guid>
		<description>Oldschool

Get serious. It does not matter if they broke the law because it was their own money??? You are aware that the law is in place to ensure a level playing field during elections. It does not matter if you think it is "crazy" - it is still the law, and the CPC are bound by it.

Not to mention the fact they are claiming 700 thousand TAX PAYER dollars as refunds, by lying...some might say that is theft - so there goes your "it is their own money" theory.&lt;div class="comment-remix-meta"&gt;&lt;a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('14875','Gayle'); return false;"&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('14875','Gayle','Oldschool\r\n\r\nGet serious. It does not matter if they broke the law because it was their own money??? You are aware that the law is in place to ensure a level playing field during elections. It does not matter if you think it is \&#34;crazy\&#34; - it is still the law, and the CPC are bound by it.\r\n\r\nNot to mention the fact they are claiming 700 thousand TAX PAYER dollars as refunds, by lying...some might say that is theft - so there goes your \&#34;it is their own money\&#34; theory.'); return false;"&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oldschool</p>
<p>Get serious. It does not matter if they broke the law because it was their own money??? You are aware that the law is in place to ensure a level playing field during elections. It does not matter if you think it is &#8220;crazy&#8221; - it is still the law, and the CPC are bound by it.</p>
<p>Not to mention the fact they are claiming 700 thousand TAX PAYER dollars as refunds, by lying&#8230;some might say that is theft - so there goes your &#8220;it is their own money&#8221; theory.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('14875','Gayle'); return false;">Reply</a>  - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('14875','Gayle','Oldschool\r\n\r\nGet serious. It does not matter if they broke the law because it was their own money??? You are aware that the law is in place to ensure a level playing field during elections. It does not matter if you think it is \&quot;crazy\&quot; - it is still the law, and the CPC are bound by it.\r\n\r\nNot to mention the fact they are claiming 700 thousand TAX PAYER dollars as refunds, by lying...some might say that is theft - so there goes your \&quot;it is their own money\&quot; theory.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: tdwebste</title>
		<link>http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/2008/05/05/conservatives-hope-public-cynicism-towards-their-acts-means-they-go-unpunished-by-the-electorate/#comment-14872</link>
		<dc:creator>tdwebste</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 18:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/?p=1259#comment-14872</guid>
		<description>Right now the Liberals commit political suicide by continued unconditional support of the Conservatives until 2009. 
After the Liberals protecting the Conservatives for their complete term. Wouldn't you ask WHO should you vote for? The Conservatives are BAD, but the Liberals obviously support/protect them.

Every time the Liberals promise to delay the election, they lose credibility. Unfortately as Dion's leadership protects the Conservatives, he destroyes the Liberal party. And because the Bloc or NDP are unlikely to form a government, the Consevatives will win a minority government again 2009. And the world will ask us why Canadian's have become so corrupt. Much like the world ask today why the Americans are so bad after relecting Bush in 2004.

If Dion cares about the Liberal party, if he cares about Canada, he would stop supporting the Conservatives. And when he stood up he would discover people will stand by him to fight united and strong.&lt;div class="comment-remix-meta"&gt;&lt;a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('14872','tdwebste'); return false;"&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('14872','tdwebste','Right now the Liberals commit political suicide by continued unconditional support of the Conservatives until 2009. \r\nAfter the Liberals protecting the Conservatives for their complete term. Wouldn\'t you ask WHO should you vote for? The Conservatives are BAD, but the Liberals obviously support\/protect them.\r\n\r\nEvery time the Liberals promise to delay the election, they lose credibility. Unfortately as Dion\'s leadership protects the Conservatives, he destroyes the Liberal party. And because the Bloc or NDP are unlikely to form a government, the Consevatives will win a minority government again 2009. And the world will ask us why Canadian\'s have become so corrupt. Much like the world ask today why the Americans are so bad after relecting Bush in 2004.\r\n\r\nIf Dion cares about the Liberal party, if he cares about Canada, he would stop supporting the Conservatives. And when he stood up he would discover people will stand by him to fight united and strong.'); return false;"&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right now the Liberals commit political suicide by continued unconditional support of the Conservatives until 2009.<br />
After the Liberals protecting the Conservatives for their complete term. Wouldn&#8217;t you ask WHO should you vote for? The Conservatives are BAD, but the Liberals obviously support/protect them.</p>
<p>Every time the Liberals promise to delay the election, they lose credibility. Unfortately as Dion&#8217;s leadership protects the Conservatives, he destroyes the Liberal party. And because the Bloc or NDP are unlikely to form a government, the Consevatives will win a minority government again 2009. And the world will ask us why Canadian&#8217;s have become so corrupt. Much like the world ask today why the Americans are so bad after relecting Bush in 2004.</p>
<p>If Dion cares about the Liberal party, if he cares about Canada, he would stop supporting the Conservatives. And when he stood up he would discover people will stand by him to fight united and strong.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('14872','tdwebste'); return false;">Reply</a>  - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('14872','tdwebste','Right now the Liberals commit political suicide by continued unconditional support of the Conservatives until 2009. \r\nAfter the Liberals protecting the Conservatives for their complete term. Wouldn\'t you ask WHO should you vote for? The Conservatives are BAD, but the Liberals obviously support\/protect them.\r\n\r\nEvery time the Liberals promise to delay the election, they lose credibility. Unfortately as Dion\'s leadership protects the Conservatives, he destroyes the Liberal party. And because the Bloc or NDP are unlikely to form a government, the Consevatives will win a minority government again 2009. And the world will ask us why Canadian\'s have become so corrupt. Much like the world ask today why the Americans are so bad after relecting Bush in 2004.\r\n\r\nIf Dion cares about the Liberal party, if he cares about Canada, he would stop supporting the Conservatives. And when he stood up he would discover people will stand by him to fight united and strong.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Oldschool</title>
		<link>http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/2008/05/05/conservatives-hope-public-cynicism-towards-their-acts-means-they-go-unpunished-by-the-electorate/#comment-14871</link>
		<dc:creator>Oldschool</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 18:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/?p=1259#comment-14871</guid>
		<description>In and Out financing . . . 
Like whose money was it???
Like why do we have such crazy election laws . . . must be a lefty thing!!!
At least they used their own money . .  not stealing from taxpayers as was the previous regeme.
Question: How much of the stolen funds have the LPC repaid? Whe can we expect to get the balance???

Remember Thomas Jefferson: "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."&lt;div class="comment-remix-meta"&gt;&lt;a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('14871','Oldschool'); return false;"&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('14871','Oldschool','In and Out financing . . . \r\nLike whose money was it???\r\nLike why do we have such crazy election laws . . . must be a lefty thing!!!\r\nAt least they used their own money . .  not stealing from taxpayers as was the previous regeme.\r\nQuestion: How much of the stolen funds have the LPC repaid? Whe can we expect to get the balance???\r\n\r\nRemember Thomas Jefferson: \&#34;The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.\&#34;'); return false;"&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In and Out financing . . .<br />
Like whose money was it???<br />
Like why do we have such crazy election laws . . . must be a lefty thing!!!<br />
At least they used their own money . .  not stealing from taxpayers as was the previous regeme.<br />
Question: How much of the stolen funds have the LPC repaid? Whe can we expect to get the balance???</p>
<p>Remember Thomas Jefferson: &#8220;The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.&#8221;
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('14871','Oldschool'); return false;">Reply</a>  - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('14871','Oldschool','In and Out financing . . . \r\nLike whose money was it???\r\nLike why do we have such crazy election laws . . . must be a lefty thing!!!\r\nAt least they used their own money . .  not stealing from taxpayers as was the previous regeme.\r\nQuestion: How much of the stolen funds have the LPC repaid? Whe can we expect to get the balance???\r\n\r\nRemember Thomas Jefferson: \&quot;The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.\&quot;'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: scotchcart</title>
		<link>http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/2008/05/05/conservatives-hope-public-cynicism-towards-their-acts-means-they-go-unpunished-by-the-electorate/#comment-14869</link>
		<dc:creator>scotchcart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 13:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/?p=1259#comment-14869</guid>
		<description>Mugabe has arrested about 90 his electoral commission officials.  Presently, teachers who usually help run elections and who will be needed for the presidential runoff, are threatening to go on strike because 120 or so have been assaulted by people associated with him.

Democracy isn't automatic.  It has been to established every day.&lt;div class="comment-remix-meta"&gt;&lt;a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('14869','scotchcart'); return false;"&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('14869','scotchcart','Mugabe has arrested about 90 his electoral commission officials.  Presently, teachers who usually help run elections and who will be needed for the presidential runoff, are threatening to go on strike because 120 or so have been assaulted by people associated with him.\r\n\r\nDemocracy isn\'t automatic.  It has been to established every day.'); return false;"&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mugabe has arrested about 90 his electoral commission officials.  Presently, teachers who usually help run elections and who will be needed for the presidential runoff, are threatening to go on strike because 120 or so have been assaulted by people associated with him.</p>
<p>Democracy isn&#8217;t automatic.  It has been to established every day.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('14869','scotchcart'); return false;">Reply</a>  - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('14869','scotchcart','Mugabe has arrested about 90 his electoral commission officials.  Presently, teachers who usually help run elections and who will be needed for the presidential runoff, are threatening to go on strike because 120 or so have been assaulted by people associated with him.\r\n\r\nDemocracy isn\'t automatic.  It has been to established every day.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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